Doctoring the Truth
Welcome to Doctoring the Truth, a podcast where two dedicated audiologists dissect the world of healthcare gone rogue. Explore jaw-dropping stories of medical malfeasance, nefariousness, and shocking breaches of trust. The episodes provide deep dives that latch onto your curiosity and conscience. It's a podcast for truth-seekers craving true crime, clinical insights, and a dash of humor.
Doctoring the Truth
Ep 25-Hospital Horror: The Angel of Death Murders
Efren Saldivar, a respiratory therapist at Glendale Adventist Hospital, confessed to murdering over 50 patients between 1989-1998 before later recanting his confession on national television. What followed was a groundbreaking forensic investigation that would eventually prove his guilt and reveal his disturbing motive: he killed patients when he felt overworked or short-staffed.
Resources:
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/visibleproofs/galleries/cases/saldivar_image_5.html
https://napavalleyregister.com/
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-2003-12-17-0312160617-story,amp.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hospital-worker-admits-40-50-killings/
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go amanda how are you doing? I'm great I'm I'm doing good. I'm still like kicking this summer cold situation, like feeling better generally, but I have a little sniffly nose, so sorry for your future editing endeavors and yeah oh, it's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little now and then just makes us more human. Listen, guys, we don't get paid for this we did out here with the sniffles. If you want to have a really good editing, you know, pony up with some support or some spots to our sponsors out there and then maybe we got Jen out here working 10 hour days, five days a week and then coming home to do it and I'm like it's almost my bedtime, are you ready?
Speaker 1:We have to get out, we have to get our clocks aligned a little on Mondays. But, oh my goodness, today at work people kept staring at me really weirdly. I was like, do I have something like right here in my teeth? Or like what's going on? No, they were staring at my arms and, just like I could tell when I'm I do a lot of gestures. When I talk, I'm gesturing now.
Speaker 1:I know this is an auditory medium but and so I'm gesturing wildly and people were just like entranced by my arms and not listening to what I had to say. So I looked down in the uber bright fluorescent lighting of the clinic and realized that I have full-on. I don't know if you can see this, amanda, because I like mood lighting in my room, but I look like I got into a very engaged wrestling match you do, you got some scratches.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have scratches everywhere and I didn't even realize it, because I've been trying to grow raspberries for years and I usually get, like you know, maybe six at a time, and it's just like I hand them out to family members and then hoard the remaining two or three to myself, like this is how much I want these things.
Speaker 2:She's like here's six and I've got two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this year, oh my God, I picked four pounds in one go. Oh my gosh, wow, way to go. So what happened was the neighbors had some, but they decided to spread over to my side of the yard. Thank you, neighbors. Hope you're listening, not listening, listening, not listening. And I have this bumper crop this year. Oh, it's amazing. So four pots of jam later, I'm sitting pretty and.
Speaker 1:I think I might even get another harvest, but my daughter's like mom, you look horrendous, you look absolutely ridiculous. Because I said do you think this is bad?
Speaker 2:people yeah, I can see why.
Speaker 1:So she's gonna make me some leg warmer, arm warmer, type things. Oh, that's nice. Like she's gonna cut some socks so I can still use my hands because I don't want to use gloves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean or you could wear a long shirt. Yeah, that's breathable yeah, plus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got to eat some as I'm doing it.
Speaker 2:So you know I'm dance-free.
Speaker 1:So that's where I'm at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your arms do look bad, now that you mention that.
Speaker 1:Can you tell I can? Yeah, oh yeah, oh fun, oh fun, oh fun. So here is me thinking oh, I've either got something in my teeth or I'm just exuding something charm some kind of attractiveness today? And it wasn't. It was horror like is she okay?
Speaker 2:they were like should we ask her if she feels safe at home?
Speaker 2:you're like, it's the raspberries, right it's like no, my cat and I don't get along so I spent my day working on this case because I told you guys last week that we were going to be covering a serial killer nurse and you know I just I didn't have time to finish. I actually am reading two books for that case and I got to the point where I probably could have finished it, but I felt like I was just kind of rushing and not really doing it justice, just kind of ending because it had to end, and so I thought, well, I'll just do something else. And then I picked a new case this morning and then, as I'm like on page five of research, I'm like why did I do this to myself?
Speaker 1:That's so work in one day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so like I'm on summer break mode, so this was a full day of work for me, so I am just toasted right now.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I'm excited. What are we?
Speaker 2:going to hear about yeah, we are going to be talking about the angel of death today which there are a few self-proclaimed angel of death, so we'll be talking about one in particular that we'll get into here shortly. But first I do want to hit the correction section. You may notice from last week that we were just bantering away together at the end la la, la, happy day.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden I looked at my computer screen while I was reading the last sponsor and if you guys are Mac users you know the rainbow wheel of death and how frightening that is, especially when you're in graduate school and you're working on something and you have a rainbow wheel of death and you're like oh my God, no. But also when you're recording a podcast and you see that and you're like oh my God. So I finished reading the sponsorship and I told Jenna I don't think my thing is working anymore, like this is what my recording's at, and so to like control, alt, delete, like open the task manager it would only let me do that. If I chose to not save it, it would close and I was like damn it. So then I was like maybe I can trick my computer and like hard restart my computer and then like everything will pop back up where it was. And so she finished the episode. Thank you for carrying us through the end there.
Speaker 2:Cause I was gone.
Speaker 1:Well, you were in my ear the whole time, so I don't know if listeners know how this works, but we're on FaceTime with each other. I got hearing aids. You probably have AirPods or something. Oh yeah of course you do, you little Apple freak.
Speaker 2:I'm just a little Apple girl.
Speaker 1:So you were telling me no, I'm going to do it. I forget what you were telling me. I was like, and next week I think she's gonna and you're in my ear going no, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 2:I'm in her ear Like I put a quote on there. I put a quote on there.
Speaker 1:Read the quote from this angel, I was like where they're still talking to you as it's recording and so, yeah, that probably did sound a little weird. Yeah, I don't know how newscasters do it News anchors because they always have like, oh, oh, you know, here's the latest.
Speaker 2:I don't think I could do that yeah, and so they're all like oh, breaking news, blah, blah. Someone's in my ear I'm still talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're talented go newscasters yeah, they must not have adhd, or maybe they do, maybe they have extra, maybe they have extra because mine ain't enough.
Speaker 2:yeah, so anyway, long story short. Luckily for jen, my hard restore on the computer was enough to trick its brain and it did reopen my audio file, so we did not have to rerecord, thank God.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, it was my, I mean you, you're, I owe you one. I mean I lost mine that one week, so we had to redo it.
Speaker 2:So you know you get a pass if it ever does happen. But let's hope. Let's hope not so. Dear mac computer, you are fully charged. I know you are old, but you are a trusty baby and please hang in there with us tonight. No rainbow wheel of death, yeah hang in there, girl.
Speaker 1:When I saw rainbow wheel of death I was like, oh, is this the topic? I was thinking, is it an lbgtq ia murder thing?
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean, that does sound very intriguing, but yeah, no, it's a Mac thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, that's better than a.
Speaker 2:I feel like if I was just listening to this and I heard them say Rainbow Wheel of Death and Mac, I'd be like, oh my god, the anxiety that induces just thinking about that little wheel spinning.
Speaker 1:Grad school. Listen, I had an electric typewriter in grad school. So that's our age gap here. Uh, yeah, so anyway, I guess luckily for me I have that, just be grateful you were able to have the privileged rainbow wheel of death and you didn't have to use whiteout and try and retype over your mistakes the privileged rainbow wheel of death, didn't have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, true, you have to use white out and try and retype over your mistakes and stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh God, I'm dating myself, okay, um.
Speaker 2:So if you're feeling dated and you need to forget about it, you could probably take.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Nice segue Advantage of one of our sponsors, shimmerwood Beverages of one of our sponsors, shimmerwood Beverages. Shimmerwood Beverages found at Shimmerwoodcom crafts CBD-infused seltzers using full-spectrum CBD for a calming, non-intoxicating effect. Twice named the number one CBD drink by Forbes. These refreshing seltzers combine main-sourced fruit, cocktail bitters and clean ingredients, so no added sugars, sugars, caffeine or artificial flavors. They are available in bold flavors like ras lime, as we've talked about, would be my go-to to try. I think chai, cherry, ginger, orange and the one that jenna said probably tastes like a rope, just hemp I'm like yeah uh, shimmerwood, hey, we're not selling it with that.
Speaker 1:They're probably, if they could hear us thank you.
Speaker 2:Shimmerwood offers a natural, flavorful alternative to alcohol or sugary drinks. Perfect for relaxing anytime, straight or mixed. Visit wwwshimmerwoodcom for an exclusive 30% off with our discount code. Stay suspicious, all right, so no trigger warnings for this episode. Shall we just get into it? Let's do it all right, I'm ready. Okay. It all started with a chilling confession. In 1998, a respiratory therapist at a Glendale hospital in California told police that he had murdered 50 patients. What Efren Saldivar stated? That he had deliberately overdosed patients with pancuronium bromide, known as Pavulon or succinylcholine chloride, which I will be calling SUCC, because I ain't saying that the whole time.
Speaker 1:But also that acronym is lovely SUCC. You could just call it SUCC. I know SUCC.
Speaker 2:I mean, if the audience doesn't mind, I'm just going to call it SUCC.
Speaker 1:He sucks, that's for sure. Yes, he does. Have you heard of this case? No, not at all. But I mean, we're right out of the gate where he's talking about murdering 50 people. Yeah, he's a douchebag.
Speaker 2:Okay, but he later recants his confession and police are forced to release him for lack of evidence. And police are forced to release him for lack of evidence. Experts then referred detectives to the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's Forensic Science Center, sometimes called the Lab of Last Resort. There, dr Brian Andresen said that pavillon might still be detectable in the victims' bodies, and if so, police could prove that murder had been committed.
Speaker 1:Dun, yeah, how are they going to do that? They have to go and figure out how many people died on his watch or something. Oh, sorry, you're going to tell us. I know, sorry, it's going to be a journey okay, it'll be a journey.
Speaker 2:efren saldivar was born to immigrants in brownsville, texas, in 1969. His family relocated to the the Los Angeles area when he was two years old. His father worked as a handyman and his mother was a seamstress. Such classic jobs for the time, am I right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Efren was known to be outgoing and smart, although he never, admittedly, tried very hard at school, and we hear that about people that are really smart. Right, school is boring, yeah, and I'm not sure if this was the case for Efren, but perhaps it was so. After failing to graduate high school, he got an equivalency certificate and enrolled at the College of Medical and Dental Careers in the spring of 1988. And dental careers in the spring of 1988. He wanted to be a respiratory therapist. Why, well, it's not some heartfelt, touching story like the rest of us usually gush about when we're asked why we joined our fields of practice no no, efren wanted to become a respiratory therapist because he quote liked the uniforms.
Speaker 2:End quote a respiratory therapist because he quote liked the uniforms end quote dude, they're scrubs. I mean, how many different and I'm I'm sorry guys, yes, I'm like the only respiratory therapist I have ever worked with also just wore scrubs, so like I guess I've never been in the room with them during an assessment. So like, please excuse me if I'm missing something cooler than scrubs and like, yeah, and don't get me wrong Like we all love a scrubs moment, but bro.
Speaker 2:Heck, yeah, I'm wearing them right now, yeah, a lot of careers afford the opportunity to wear scrubs, so I just thought that's an interesting choice I mean he could have been a hairdresser.
Speaker 1:Well, no, we don't want to put more yeah, yeah, okay, anyway and just like that's so funny.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh god, efren, you big da. Okay. So in 1989, which entered me into the world, he was certified.
Speaker 1:You're such a baby. You're so small. That was the year I graduated from high school. I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Hey, I made the 80s.
Speaker 1:I almost made 88. You can say you're an 80s child. Yeah, oh.
Speaker 2:You're a preemie, almost Ohemie. Oh, no, full term. I'm just saying like it just was right into the beginning of oh, I have an early birthday, yeah, yeah, anyway, enough about me. Back to efren. Yeah, in 1989 he was certified by the state of california as a respiratory care practitioner and was hired at glendale adventist. Yes, sorry, she rose her hand. Yes, is there a difference?
Speaker 1:I'm raising my hand. I'm so polite all of a sudden. That doesn't normally happen. What's the difference between a respiratory care practitioner?
Speaker 2:No clue, I think it's just like sometimes they're called this and sometimes they're called that.
Speaker 1:Like when they say like a dish technician or something, for somebody who washes dishes, dish technician. They're just trying to fancy, they're trying to fancify something. Yeah, I don't know, that's just what the document sounds already, he's a.
Speaker 2:He's a respiratory therapist, I don't know, it sounds fancy. Okay, he's an rt. So anyway, he was hired at glendale adventist Center and he most typically worked overnight shifts, commonly known as the graveyard shift, a term that would become horrifically literal over the next nine years.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:Repetorial as a respiratory therapist, Efren.
Speaker 1:Oh, now he's a care therapist. You wrote respiratory care therapist. That's why I skipped it.
Speaker 2:You guys. I intentionally skipped that. She's reading it. Get off my document. Sorry, I've been off your document as a respiratory therapist, efren, was authorized to administer medication to help patients with breathing problems. And, like I don't know if Marcy ever listens to this, but I just like, the whole time I was doing this I wanted to be like hi, mercy oh, I know we have our friends.
Speaker 1:We have some lots of respiratory therapy therapy, friend, down the hall from us evan was described as a pretty nice guy and that he seemed normal okay, I'm sorry, I'm gonna stop interrupting after this well maybe not.
Speaker 2:But if you have to say somebody's pretty nice, that means he's probably not nice and they're just gonna be nice that or like maybe you're kind of a loner and like no one really talks to you anyway, so they don't really know a lot about you, but you, you've never been like ugly to them or anything, so like I don't know, I think he's like a pretty nice guy, okay. Okay, two sides of the coin. Maybe it's a cube, maybe there's more sides, I don't know. And it would be three years until efren would decide to start taking the lives of patients. Oh, and you may ask yourself, how does one just decide to start doing this? And I'm sure that murderers have many forms of inspiration, but for efren, our buddy efren, the inspiration came from a 2020 new segment of 60 minutes. She's got her hand up folks.
Speaker 1:I have to point out the pun. Is this the?
Speaker 2:same, or is?
Speaker 1:it because he's a. He's a respiratory therapist and you use the word inspiration twice in that sentence to describe. Yeah, I was totally trying to be punny Love that.
Speaker 2:Okay 2020.
Speaker 1:60 minutes I was not trying to be punny, I did not do it, get it. Inspiration Expiration Okay, I just blew into the microphone. I'm making my job really hard.
Speaker 2:She's going to regret that later. I just blew into the microphone.
Speaker 2:I'm making my job really hard. She's going to regret that later. The episode reported on a therapist in Chicago who was killing patients. He would later confess to authorities. He felt encouraged by other therapists at the hospital who would sometimes give him room numbers of patients who needed lethal injections. I know that was odd to me, so odd that I almost took it out, but it's something he said. So maybe they were just like this guy doesn't mind if people die, you can go to it. I don't know.
Speaker 1:But why are we doing lethal injections? I don't know. I didn't think that was allowed. I don't know. Maybe if somebody's brain dead, maybe you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, but don't they just take them off?
Speaker 1:support then, and wait for nature to take its course, can you keep yourself alive without being hooked up to stuff, and without? No, I don't know, that doesn't make sense. Maybe it was a typo or something and they would give him room numbers of patients that needed injections and he turned them to be lethal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go with that?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, anyway, regardless, his colleagues started to grow suspicious of him and they noticed that he was storing medications in his locker, along with a magic syringe, as they called it.
Speaker 1:Okay, guys, if you see something, say something. Am I right?
Speaker 2:Well, you're right, but someone does explain later why they didn't say something. Okay, the Glendale police department received a tip on march 2nd 1998. The hospital had called to inform them that they received a call from someone named grant, and grant stated that there was a respiratory therapist who was killing patients by lethal injection. The caller alleged that on or about February 16th a therapist named Efren Saldivar at Glendale Adventist Medical Center helped a patient die fast. This Grant character said that he wanted $50,000 before he'd share more information.
Speaker 2:The initial thought was that someone was just trying to extort the hospital for money. But what if it was true? Thought was that someone was just trying to extort the hospital for money. But what if it was true? So authorities went to Grant's house and he shared that he was friends with a woman who worked at the hospital and that he had overheard a conversation, that there was someone on staff that they believed was intentionally killing patients and he told them which is also contradictory of what was said that he said if you can give me a list of all of the respiratory therapists at the hospital, I can tell you which one it was, so that the name was shared with the hospital before. But whatever, I wasn't there. I was like in fourth grade I was I.
Speaker 2:I was graduating with my master's degree I don't know if I was in fourth grade, but anyway. So a list was shared and he pointed out the name Efren Salvador. Authorities went to the hospital to start an investigation, wanting to, of course, keep things close to the chest, in an effort that, if the news of the investigation would get out, that it would not get back to Efren. Bob Baker was one of the respiratory therapists that was interviewed. He indicated that he was also suspicious of Efren. Bob didn't want anyone to see him talking to authorities. In fact, he asked to meet in the parking lot and was just puffing away at cigarettes when they talked, which I also thought was wild, because you're a respiratory therapist.
Speaker 1:He's a respiratory freaking therapist.
Speaker 2:And you're smoking. I guess he was just like puffing heaters and he was like looking around as if he was worried that he would be caught. Suspicious heck, yeah. So Bob told them that Efren was killing patients and that had started many years ago. He explained that his confidence in this information came from finding medication in efren's locker and he explained that he found the medications and never said anything because he was playing a practical joke. So the joke was that he was going to switch things from efren's locker with someone else's locker. But when he pried open Efren's locker he found the controlled substances that are monitored by the hospital and, you know, only specific individuals should have them. None of them, being a respiratory therapist, should never have access or be in possession of them.
Speaker 1:Well, not in your personal locker. Yeah, not in your locker. But again, so he didn't say anything yeah, not in your locker.
Speaker 2:But again so he didn't say anything because he went into his locker without permission. He broke into his locker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry, but he could have just said I was pranking him and I found this yeah, See something, say something, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:So the police had nothing at this point but a name. So they decided to call Efren down to the station for some questions. And when he got there he appeared very anxious upon arrival, like he needed to get something off of his shoulders. And so they told him you know, there are some allegations that you are killing patients. And after they said that, efren seemed to clam up a little bit. So Detective Curry was worried how much he would get out of them, because really they had nothing. He said that one way that they can clear his name is by a polygraph. But Efren did not want to do a polygraph because he said the results would be inconclusive. He said they would be inconclusive because he was responsible for the death of a patient in 1989.
Speaker 1:Clever. Yeah, that was clever of him, though, to get out of it that way.
Speaker 2:He shared that six months after he started his job, which was nine years earlier, a patient had been taken off of life support and the doctor had told the family, you know, the patient was dead. So Efren explained that when he went into the room 45 minutes later, the patient was still alive and he thought well, we can't have this. So he suffocated him by joining the respirator breathing tubes, blocking the flow of fresh air and causing the patient to die in about 15 minutes oh okay, I take back what I said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't understand that he'd actually caused this guy to die. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So detective curry thanked him for sharing and knew he needed to get him chatting some more, and in the end efren did agree to do a polygraph exam. Curry was listening from outside of the door as efren relayed the same test concerns to the examiner. But then he also shared with him another incident that happened in august of 1997, when he injected a patient with a medication that caused paralysis, ultimately leading to the patient's death. The polygraph examiner asked efren if he considered himself an angel of death and he replied yes. After hearing yet another confession, curry knew that he needed to keep him talking, and so he brought in one of his colleagues, detective Tony Fuchsia. But first things first, efren was arrested on charges of murder and read his Miranda rights, in which he waved and continued to confess detailed accounts of all of the deaths.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, I interviewed.
Speaker 2:Efren at length and he told me that he had caused between 40 and 50 deaths at GAMC since he was employed there in 1989, curry stated. Efren said that some of the deaths were by lethal injections of the Pavulon or SUCC, both of which caused paralysis. He also admitted to causing deaths by decreasing oxygen of patients who were on a ventilator. This is chilling, but he explained to Curry that the criteria for patients being killed were as follows they had to be unconscious, they had to have a DNR order and they had to look like they were ready to die. Efren said that he quote prided himself in having a very ethical criteria as to how he picked victims. End quote.
Speaker 1:So he's playing God and he's convinced himself that he's saving them from suffering Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, my gosh. Detectives asked Efren to get into more specifics like room numbers, patient names etc. So that they'd have something more concrete to go off of. He said that he stopped counting how many deaths he had caused after 50 or 60 patients that he had used pavulin and that his motive was more to help them die the whole angel of death thing, more to help them die the whole angel of death thing.
Speaker 2:So once he was booked in jail, detectives only had 48 hours to get concrete evidence to make charges stick, and if they couldn't do that within 48 hours he would have to be released imagine the pressure you would feel, like you know this guy needs to be taken off the streets and I feel like we're always so disappointed when we're like, oh you, you didn't arrest him and they're like, no, we need more concrete information or it's never gonna stick, and like here's the case where he was arrested because he did admit to killing people, but it's like we don't actually have any evidence. Now we only have 48 hours and there I don't think I put this in there, but there were a lot of things where detectives and authorities were like this was literally a backwards case, like we had a confession but we had to find what the crime was.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:So a search warrant was obtained for his locker at work which revealed that he was doing some sample testing on a machine at work. And to do tests on the machine he had to put a name into the machine, and the name he chose to use was Dr Kevorkian.
Speaker 1:Subtle Real subtle dude no one will figure that out.
Speaker 2:So Dr Jack Kevorkian, if you don't know, was assisting people with suicide by lethal injection or medication, and so this was a look into Efren's state of mind for authorities that there was some validity into what they were investigating.
Speaker 2:A team also went to his house to execute a search warrant and they took anything that was related to the medical field, one of these items being a drug called Versed, which we know, one of these items being a drug called versed, which we know. Yeah, versed is a controlled substance used by anesthesiologists or doctors to help relax patients and let them be drowsy for a procedure. Again, not something a respiratory therapist should have in their possession specifically at their house or even use at the hospital. Investigators were getting close to their 48-hour time frame, and they knew that they weren't going to be able to gather enough concrete evidence by that time. So, at the very least, they called the board to have his license revoked so that he would be kept out of work while they continued to dig deeper. And, yes, he was released after 48 hours, unfortunately, but the board did suspend his license to practice and he was also fired from the hospital.
Speaker 1:Well, thank goodness, at least yeah, for that small mercy.
Speaker 2:Small victories, yep. So the hospital also launched an internal investigation and put all of the respiratory staff, which was about 40 people, on paid leave pending the investigation. Staff, which was about 40 people, on paid leave pending the investigation. This has been an all-out search for the truth for this hospital, said hospital spokesperson mark newmeyer. We do not know at this point if any wrongdoing has been committed. We did bring the police in immediately. I'm like lol, that's such ayour-ass statement from a hospital spokesperson.
Speaker 1:But also what's going to happen when somebody needs a respiratory therapist?
Speaker 2:I know I guess they're just relying on the doctors Starting to hyperventilate, oh my gosh. I'm sorry guys, you have to place your own ventilators because the RTs are out right now.
Speaker 1:My goodness Wow the.
Speaker 2:RTs are out right now. My goodness, wow. So investigators fully immersed themselves in the case, cross-referencing a list of patients that had died with those that were treated by Efren, and can you even imagine that undertaking? All of the deaths at the hospital to be looked at for a whole ass decade.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that's so long. That's gotta be so many thousands oh, my gosh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it didn't take long for media to get a hold of the story. It was all over the news and so a hotline was shared for the public to call if they believed they knew someone who might be involved in a mysterious case of death at the hospital. And they received 500 calls in the first day. Oh cause, you know, everyone saw that and they were like, yeah, my Thelma shouldn't have died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my God, what a, what a nightmare. Oh gosh, what a.
Speaker 2:PR nightmare First of all, but then yeah, they couldn't even do this work Like nightmare first of all. But then, yeah, they couldn't even do this work, like it was so much they couldn't even do all the work at the police station and they were kind of getting some gruff from their colleagues of, like you guys are chasing a pot of gold at the rainbow, you know, like this is a waste of time kind of thing, like there's no concrete evidence and so there's not gonna be any if you don't dig for it right.
Speaker 2:And so there was a house by the hospital that was owned by the hospital that, like, residents live in, and it was empty at the time. So the hospital let investigators shack up there and make that their like investigation home site. So that was kind of cool. Oh, that's good, yeah. So now we're in April of 1998. And Efren decided, you know, he's going to go on national broadcast shows and he took part in an interview with 2020 where he recanted no, he didn't, oh, he did. Where he recanted his alleged confession, claiming that it was a suicidal plea.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, Efren, you're a narcissist. Oh, oh my god, how much of a narcissist is this guy?
Speaker 2:holy cow, the meter is off the charts. He said that he was under the influence of valium when he came in for the interview and that he was depressed. So he yeah, you know yeah, I've had valium before.
Speaker 1:I definitely go to the police station if I'm on Valium and tell the police I killed 50 people. Come on, dude.
Speaker 2:Well, you know so he said he was depressed and he wanted to commit a crime that he, so he wanted to confess to committing a crime he didn't commit, he said. He said he lied. He wanted the system to do to me what I couldn't do to me. He said I was looking to die. I figured, you know, one death isn't going to be enough for the death penalty. So I said two, and then I started to cry because I was ending my life.
Speaker 1:End quote, which I'm like you didn't say two, you said 50 in the rod dude, get your facts right at least.
Speaker 2:Come on, math it a little you're on 2020, bro, get your shit together. But after he did this interview, then the public seemed to believe him and a morning talk show host even called out the police department for harassing him. I was like what, how dare you came to the station and admitted to killing over 50 people. Like it's not harassment, it's called an investigation, sweetie. Like how do you not look into that? But okay, and when the investigators would be at the hospital, there would be doctors like passing in the hall who would even ask them are we really going to be wasting taxpayers' money on this?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, we are, Because the public needs to be safe from serial killers. Yes, come on guys.
Speaker 2:How about stay in your lane? You save lives. How clever is this.
Speaker 1:How clever is this dude, though I mean he knows he's, he can manipulate people. Oh my God, I hate him so much yeah.
Speaker 2:So, before we get any more into that, we are gonna head into a little chart. No, welcome to the chart note segment where we learn about what's happening in medicine and health care. Have you seen that tiktok actually, where it's like for $50, blah, blah, blah. I can't even remember the exact words right now, but people are like mimicking this like something that's on sale and it's like you can get two for the price of one. I don't know, I felt very like.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the chart note segment. Yeah, I mean I feel like you got it down pat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if only I could know the actual words. Okay, so today we're going to be talking about menstrual AI.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, you mentioned that. You just throw that out there like I'm supposed to know what that means. So Can we have robots have periods for women? That'd be awesome.
Speaker 2:that would be awesome yeah, it's like, if you're not having babies, like what the fuck do I need this thing for for real? So, anyway, menstrual ai, turning menstrual blood into a powerful health diagnostic tool. So every month, around 1.8 billion people menstruate, that's a lot, holy smokes.
Speaker 2:Yet the potential of menstrual blood as a valuable health resource remains largely untapped. While venous blood has long been a cornerstone of medical diagnostics, menstrual blood, which contains hundreds of proteins and biomarkers, is still primarily viewed as waste or used only for fertility tracking. A team of researchers at ETH Zurich, led by Professor Ng Herman and doctoral student Lucas Dasnan, is working to change that. Their innovation, MenstruAI I think. Menstruai is a first-of-its-kind, non-invasive health monitoring tool built directly into a sanitary pad. The smart pad uses a paper-based lateral flow assay, Assay, Assay, Assay, Assay I know now I can't stop saying ass. So apparently this flow assay is similar to COVID-19 test strips to analyze menstrual blood for biomarkers associated with various diseases, including inflammation, infections, endometriosis and cancer.
Speaker 2:It's an entirely novel way to integrate diagnostics into everyday life, right where no one expected in a menstrual pad. Exactly wow, yeah. So how it works is obviously you wear the pad that's embedded with the non-electronic sensor. After use, a photograph of the pad is taken using a smartphone and there's an app that you have downloaded already to your smartphone that analyzes the color changes using machine learning trained on hundreds of test strip images. So, inside the pad, a flexible silicone chamber ensures a controlled flow of blood reaches the embedded test area, preventing smearing and maintaining accuracy. When menstrual blood contacts gold nanoparticle-coated antibodies on the test strip, a visible color change occurs. The darker the color, the higher the concentration of specific proteins like CRP. So C-reactive protein, which is a general inflammation marker. Cea, carcinoembryonic antigen, which is a tumor marker often elevated in cancers. Embryonic antigen, which is a tumor marker often elevated in cancers, and CA-125, linked to endometriosis and ovarian cancer. Wow, the smartphone app not only provides a visual readout, but can detect subtle variations in protein concentration, making the results objectively measurable even without lab equipment.
Speaker 1:That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yep. So it's accessible, affordable and designed for real life, and we love that. So the technology is currently undergoing further field testing with over 100 participants. After a successful proof of concept study, the research team is investigating how the composition of menstrual blood carries excuse me varies across individuals and throughout the menstrual cycle, which is essential for clinical validation. They are also evaluating materials for biocompatibility and regulatory approval as they prepare for potential commercialization. I wrote a whole bunch more stuff about this, but I don't think we need to talk about the pads anymore. So just to conclude, it's more than a smart pad. It's a paradigm shift. By leveraging the hidden potential of menstrual blood and combining it with ai powered analysis, this innovation has the potential to democratize health monitoring, particularly for those who have historically been excluded from timely diagnostics. It offers a discreet, affordable, affordable and revolutionary new way to keep track of one's health, one cycle at a time.
Speaker 1:I love this. I mean because you don't have to give blood or go anywhere or do anything. It's like you're already bleeding anyway, so like here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, god, I would have loved this. Like I just feel like it's, it's like a small little perk, like a little silver lining, like, yeah, I'm suffering once a month. What the hell, god, it sucks to be a woman. Sometimes I feel that way, you know, and then it's like but you know what I get to monitor my health because I do this? Right, that's, that's part of it, is the emotional impact, but also like yay, because I think it's going to reach people who otherwise wouldn't, especially young people that only go in when something's falling off or bleeding, you know, right, so, and not, not menstrually bleeding, but, like you know, I think this is great.
Speaker 2:Let's say you're a busy person and you live in like a medical wasteland where there's nowhere to go, but you can have pods delivered to your house.
Speaker 1:This access is amazing.
Speaker 2:I love this, yeah that's so cool, thank you, for sharing that of course. Okay, back to the story.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I feel like that is necessary. You said that like a SpongeBob episode. Three hours later.
Speaker 2:That's the only way I want to say it for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:Excuse me. Investigators narrowed down the list of patients to be reviewed by medical experts. They found a trend where they would be getting better and then suddenly they died. In order to charge him with murder, they needed to then find patients that were not prescribed pavulin but had it in their system oh yeah, clutter. So pavulin again. We've said it's a relaxer, but what it's used for in their work is to relax respiratory muscles during surgery. So once administered, patients cannot breathe on their own. So if not put on a ventilator, they will suffocate and die.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:Dr Dale Issef was the physician appointed to be the investigative expert. He went through one chart at a time.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine how long that took Bless his ever-loving heart.
Speaker 2:So if the patient had stable vitals and the nurse's note indicated that the patient was doing well. But then the next note indicated that the patient was found dead in bed. That was pretty suspicious, and this Dr Issaif Issaif Issaif Was a cardiologist, so he was able to show investigators look, they were doing good. But then this happened X Y Z, and this would indicate that a paralyzing agent may have been given, and this paralyzing agent being pavulin. The problem was that there was no known test to detect if pavulin was in the body, especially bodies that had been in the ground for a year or more. They were then given the name of Dr Brian Andresen, who was the director at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
Speaker 2:At Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, dr Andresen was told that pavulin and SUCC were the molecules confessed to be used in the killings. Andresen explained that, because SUCC breaks down very quickly into chemicals that are normally found in human tissue, the testing would, or should, be concentrated on pavulin, which is a potent synthetic muscle relaxant administered to patients on artificial respiration. The compound is very powerful and is given at very low levels, and it was previously thought to dissipate quickly in the body. So Andresen said that he kept an open mind when looking at the samples. But he wasn't sure exactly what he would be able to find. So he first took to the textbooks to learn everything he could about the molecule, and next he put pavulin into tissue samples to isolate it out of decomposing tissue samples. He worked 18 hour days for weeks and weeks doing laboratory work.
Speaker 1:Oh, honey, honey, you gotta sleep, you gotta eat.
Speaker 2:No, this guy is a badass, I badass I mean yes, that is so much work. So, yes, he put a lot of effort into creating an analytical procedure because he got the feeling from police that this really could be something, and dr andresen was able to successfully replicate findings with a protocol he created. So investigators worked on determining which bodies they would need to exhume for testing.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:So this laboratory? I had never heard of it, but it's, like I mentioned earlier, like the last resort lab. So when there are big things that happen, like the Unabomber or the Twin Towers, these are the folks that they go to. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:How cool would it be to work there right or to know the people that work there I know.
Speaker 2:So it's like it's amazing. Yeah, I know I thought that was like super obviously sad that they had to reach out to this lab for this case, but super cool that that's a resource that they were able to tell these people are there and they're so dedicated.
Speaker 1:I mean, basically, they give up their own lives.
Speaker 2:Literally 18 hours a day yeah.
Speaker 1:To find a solution.
Speaker 2:Wow. So while Dr Andresen was hard at work in the lab, investigators were also working long days into nights, combing through thousands and thousands of patient files. It took them 14 months to complete going through all of the files. There had been a total of 171 patients who died while efren was working at the hospital. 54 of these cases were eliminated because the bodies had been cremated. Of the remainder, 20 deaths were determined to have been suspicious and their bodies would be exhumed. They first had to contact the families and let them know what was going on and that they'd be exhuming the body of their loved ones, which was not a fun task.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine having to tell a family that, and can you imagine being that family member? Being told that no, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:After the bodies were exhumed, they were taken to the coroner to have tissue samples removed, and those samples were directly driven to Dr Andresen at the lab every Thursday. He spent hundreds of hours more going through the samples and three months later, while at the lab, dr Andresen found pavulon in one of the tissue samples. So investigators and Dr Andresen celebrated this finding but knew that there was more work to do, and so in the end, of the 20 patients exhumed, six of them had pavulin in their tissues that were never subscribed the medication.
Speaker 1:I mean we're at 30% now, so what? How many people died? 171 patients 171.
Speaker 2:So 30, or 171.
Speaker 1:So 30% of that.
Speaker 2:Well, and also, though, they couldn't test 54 because they've been cremated, so I feel like we have to take that off of the 171 yeah, so I think I think there's easily definitely 50, but easily 60 or more patients, right, oh yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you look at that percentage. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So now investigators felt like they had enough to charge efren with maida and detectives have been tracking his whereabouts throughout the investigation so that when they had any sort of breakthrough they would be able to nab him and bring him in. And so, on january 9th 2001, he was arrested and charged with six counts of first-degree murder. Once at the station, he was forthcoming with the interview in comparison to his first they got into talking about motive, which investigators assumed him to say you know, these were mercy killings, blah, blah, blah. But what shocked him was he then blamed it on the workload. What, yeah? So he basically was like if we're too busy and I'm short-staffed, fuck it, they gotta go.
Speaker 2:So he, he said the criteria that he used to try and kill people was not if they were a nuisance to him or had been annoying him or something. It simply sometimes came down to a crime of opportunity Someone that would get in the way of him getting something done that he needed to do that day. That person would just be offed If he needed to complete a task. But he was called away to see a patient. Nope, he said they're old and it's time for them to die I hate him so much yeah I'll wait till you see a picture of this dweeb too.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. So yes, he explained. If there were not enough respiratory therapists on staff for the shift, someone had to die, which I'm like. We all hate being short-staffed, but like what right?
Speaker 2:I'm just like imagining in my caseload like oh, so-and-so is a pain in the butt, they're gonna take me longer than I have time for I god, so okay investigators, you know, during this time also learned how he obtained medications in the first place and he explained that if a code blue was called a respiratory, therapist is one of the people on the team because oftentimes they have to put a patient on a ventilator to assist with breathing. So the crash cart that is brought to a code blue holds the medications to aid in intubating the patient, and prior to intubating they want to obviously stop the gag reflex, so medications such as the SUCC or the pavlovin were used. Efren explained that after the patient was stabilized.
Speaker 2:there was never anyone left at the scene other than the respiratory therapist. And why? Because the patient's on a ventilator. Everyone like they're stable. Yeah, and so the people, the other people apparently, or they the respiratory therapist, I don't know. He said that they were supposed to dump the rest of the drug down the sink, but either they didn't do that or he didn't do that. Either way, it went to his locker. The drugs were just left on the tray and then to the locker.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that explains so much.
Speaker 2:Right. So on March 12, 2002, efren pleaded guilty to six counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder. Wait what? Attempted murder and one count of attempted murder.
Speaker 1:Wait what.
Speaker 2:Attempted murder you ask. That's right I do, I do, I do, I do. One woman was lucky enough to survive his attempt. Her name was Jean Coyle and she was known by family and friends to be a happy lady, always listening to music, going to the beach, horse races, just generally having a good time. And her kids called her Gypsy Jean because she was always oh, I love her. I know Because she was always going from place to place and hooking up her U-Haul and moving from here to there.
Speaker 1:Oh, she had free spirit.
Speaker 2:She's so sweet. Jean had been a heavy smoker for most of her life and quit in her 50s. So she thought she had asthma but was diagnosed with COPD and after being hospitalized in the ICU for breathing treatments she suddenly coded. Luckily she was able to be resuscitated, but Jean called her daughter and told her that someone had come to her bedside and did some stuff and the next thing I knew she was out. She also reported this encounter to other hospital staff but sadly at the time this was taken just for wild talk, which I feel like we hear that a lot right like oh, these patients are delusional, they're in the icu, they're just saying whatever you know. But lucky for her she was never visited by that someone again, and that someone being efren Saldivar, who did recall exactly who Gene Coyle was when he was asked.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, that fucker.
Speaker 2:Ugh yeah. So Efren avoided the death penalty by a plea deal, which I thought was a little funny because his initial reason for recanting his confession was because he wanted to die. But okey dokey, apparently, he does that, apparently, you don't Okay, change of heart. Change of heart, yes, okay, okay. So he is currently serving and we're going to be happy about this guys. He is serving six consecutive life sentences at California State prison, corcoran, without the possibility of parole oh, good riddance so he's never getting out.
Speaker 2:Thank goodness he like got more sentencing than like 10 other murderers combined, yeah and you know what, we don't do this enough for murderers.
Speaker 1:But also like I can. I can kind of get behind the angel of death, like the angel of mercy type mentality. I mean I don't, I don't support it, but like I can at least understand that there is some sort of empathy or humanity behind putting someone out of their misery or someone who's asking to be put out of their misery yeah, but he was like I like the uniforms and he's like fuck yeah, these scrubs are awesome I look hot in these scrubs.
Speaker 1:It's like actually once you see a picture of me like you're never fucking hot.
Speaker 2:Actually, zero percent chance in any outfit oh.
Speaker 1:And then he's like oh my god, I got too much work to do, it's your time.
Speaker 2:She's like fucking marcia called in sick. Fuck this, I gotta kill someone, that's it that's it.
Speaker 1:That's it, number 102 you're, you're out, you're out.
Speaker 2:I mean that's so sorry you hit your call button today, sweetie angel of death on that is not even laughable.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't be joking about it, no, but it is. It's like how could someone hold life so cavalierly in their hands? It's disgusting and I'm glad he's put away forever. Forever and ever you will be locked up, you stupid mother fucker. Stupid ass hat. Thank you, hey alley cats. You know we're getting on the fence, we're getting squirrely, we are Listen. Thank God that you brought this case to our attention and that we have handful sports bras honestly, I do thank god for them every day because I do wear them.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's time to purchase more honestly. You guys, don't you understand? You know that feeling where you're like, oh, thank god this bra isn't effing suffocating me. Yeah, you can get that with Handful Sports Bra guys, because they combine comfort Let me underline that a couple times Comfort, comfort, comfort, style and performance. These bras are designed to support active lifestyles or sedentary lifestyles, as evidenced by my summer break, with moisture-wicking fabric, adjustable straps and removable pads. Perfect for workouts or daily wear. Handful bras and their coordinating leg in the tops which I don't have yet are made by women, for women, featured in top fitness magazines and loved by customers including me. Handful also gives back through their survivor support program, offering free pads to breast cancer survivors. Move confidently with activewear that empowers. Visit wwwhandfulcom for 30 off with our code.
Speaker 1:Stay suspicious suspicious, oh my goodness. Well, thank you for that. Shall we lighten things up a little bit with a medical mishap? I think we shall. Shall I read it, or do you want to?
Speaker 2:It's up to you.
Speaker 1:I feel like I need to get in there.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It says Hi, ladies, loving the pod, thank you and looking forward to Wednesdays when life gets busy. I get to binge listen and, and that's fun too, I work in an ER. Oh, bless your cotton socks, whoever you are. But yeah, and wanted to share a cautionary tale with you all. Bring it. It was around 2 am when a man came stumbling into the ER, one eye tightly sealed shut I can't be good Red and watering. He sheepishly admitted that he grabbed the wrong tube from his night. Oh no, he grabbed the wrong tube from his nightstand. Assume, oh no, a super glue tube instead of this prescription?
Speaker 2:eye drops dude.
Speaker 1:Why are you putting glue by your bed. I'm just like.
Speaker 2:What are we?
Speaker 1:What are we lying?
Speaker 2:in bed at night going.
Speaker 1:you know what I need? This Sir. What have we been gluing? I mean, yeah, exactly. What do you have in your bed?
Speaker 2:I know I'm trying to think right here I have Tums, my phone charging stand and a bottle of water, and then remote control to my fan Classic stuff Classic stuff, nothing needs to be glued.
Speaker 1:I have a little bit of lip, you know chapstick type stuff I'm. I have some allergy meds in case I forgot to take them. But like, seriously, okay, we'll go back to no glue, no glue you know, no glue and no, no need for glue, really really what? What are you doing? So he tilted his head back and squeezed twice before realizing that something was off. Dude, I don't know the rest of this. No, his eyelid was sealed also, don't you smell it?
Speaker 1:yeah, that stuff stinks. His eyelid was sealed to his eyelid and his eyelashes were fused together in a stiff crunchy mess. I hate this. I hate this so much you worked in ophthalmology for a while. Did you ever see that come into your?
Speaker 2:clinic? I did not, but I will say the only thing that I can think of that could, like mistakenly, maybe be confused, especially at the 2 am hour. Again, I don't know why glue was on this man's table, but they have like gel eye drops and they're much thicker and when you do use them your vision does go blurry for a time before you know whatever, yeah, so I'm like that could maybe have felt similar to what super.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because aren't certain antibiotics or things that you know for viruses, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, gel.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm like maybe that, like the initial feeling was like I have the right thing, I don't know, but that now I can't get past that, remembering that super glue stinks.
Speaker 1:So the er team used to yeah, I mean, bless I, I. I should have made you read this. I have an eyeball problem, like oh my god, I went in, I went into ears for a reason like I, eyeballs oh I thought you meant you currently have an eyebrow problem no, no, I just eyeballs kind of I'm squeamish about, like give me your earwax yeah I feel like, give me your.
Speaker 1:Give me your. You know your poor, whatever I'm like, give me your hearing loss. Give me your. You know your pore, whatever I'm like, give me your hearing loss. Give me your earwax, but don't give me your eyeball problems. So the ER team used a combination of mineral oil, acetone how would you put acetone on an eye? And painstakingly slow tools to pry everything apart. Good Lord, thankfully no permanent damage. But he left with an eye patch, an ophthalmology appointment and a new rule no keeping glue next to the medications. Yeah, good rule.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, golden rule.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, Thanks for reading. If you do Well, thank you, Stephanie, Because it says take care, Stephanie. Thank you Stephanie.
Speaker 2:Thank you Stephanie for making us slam our eyeball shut if you do well, thank you, stephanie, because it says take care, stephanie. Thank you, stephanie. Thank you, stephanie, for making a slammer eyeball shot and so thankful we don't glue on our night slam them shut.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that horror story, yeah thank you for sharing, stephanie yeah, but thank you, yeah, yeah no thank you're not going to crap on you. I mean, I enjoyed the fact that you said send us all your ER stories, stephanie. Yeah, we need more stuff. We need more, send them in.
Speaker 2:So, jenna, what can we expect to hear next week, unless you're going to flip the script on us, like I did, and say you're going to hear about a nurse and then, lol, it's mr respiratory therapist douchebag listen.
Speaker 1:I love that. I loved that it was a surprise. I love that it was a respiratory therapist. We haven't covered them so far, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it immensely here's.
Speaker 1:Here's my deal, so I did probably the worst case on the planet I thought you're going to do a lighthearted after the pedophile. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I did the worst case on the planet. My last case, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I promised I was going to do something lighthearted, but then I was like oh Okay, so here's the thing. We're going to get a mixed bag Next week. We're going to cover Dr Bev, which is a lighthearted little story about a teenager, and you don't need to know any more. Otherwise, I've basically told the whole story, which is my whole point. For why I need a little bit more content? Because, you know, while funny and lighthearted, dr Love doesn't last the whole episode, so we are going to be also talking about something that's maybe not as lighthearted. Well, there's no, maybe Not as lighthearted. In fact, it's pretty dark and it's called Killer MRIs.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll look forward to this essentially little two-part series in one episode Maybe.
Speaker 1:I'll start. Should I start with the MRIs that kill and then do the Dr Love?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, we'll see yeah. Or you could do Dr Love, then MRIs, then we got medical mishap.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 2:All right, listen if you guys want to know how's it going to play out?
Speaker 1:What are we?
Speaker 2:going to feel lighthearted? Are we going to be super depressed? Tune in next week, you never know. Are you going to hate your life?
Speaker 1:are you going to be excited. So don't miss a beat. Subscribe or follow doctor in the truth wherever you enjoy your podcasts for stories that shock, intrigue and educate. Trust, after all, is a delicate thing. You can text us directly on our website at doctor in the truthuthatbuzzsproutcom. Email us your story ideas and comments and medical mishaps at doctorinthetruthatbuzzsproutcom. That's all blurring together. Doctor in the Truth.
Speaker 2:You've got to make the font bigger.
Speaker 1:I know right, I think I'm with you there on that. I'm on 11. Oh my gosh, no, I need there on that. I'm on 11, like oh my god no I need to double that sucker.
Speaker 1:Be sure to follow us on instagram at doctor in the truth podcast and on facebook at doctor in the truth, and we're on tiktok at doctor in the truth and ed odd pod, which I always say in a weird I always say in a weird accent. I don't even know what that is, but it's ed aud pod. Don't forget to download, rate and review so we can be sure to bring you more content next next week.
Speaker 2:Until then, stay safe and stay suspicious hey guys we did not get a rainbow wheel of death bye that sounded like your stomach grumbling.
